Episode 8: Jade and Tarot Card Reading

Jade Miller is a book editor, developmental coach, illustrator, and published author — but in this episode, she's here to talk about something a little more unexpected: tarot cards. Part self-reflection tool, part spiritual practice, and part brilliant icebreaker, Jade's newest hobby is as thoughtful and layered as she is. Mel sits down with this former farm kid turned Brisbane creative to find out what actually goes on when someone pulls a card for you — and why it might not be what you think.

Jade takes us through the surprisingly rich history of tarot — which, as it turns out, started as a card game for Italian aristocrats in the 1400s, not a mystical fortune-telling ritual — and how it gradually evolved into the psychological and spiritual tool it's considered today. She shares how she first explored tarot at university (including a memorable stint attending a Tuesday morning psychics class with a group of wise older women), walked away from it after some significant life experiences, and then came back to it recently as a way of reopening herself to curiosity and faith. She's refreshingly honest about the spectrum of belief: you don't have to be a crystal ball person to find value in pulling a few cards.

The highlight of the episode is a live three-card reading Jade does for Mel on air — complete with a challenge, an opportunity, and an action — which leads to some genuinely uncanny moments, a solid case for getting a second cat, and a reminder that finishing what you started is actually good advice for most of us. Jade also touches on her other creative hobbies — painting and collage (which she describes brilliantly as "handmade memes") — and why making things with your hands is one of the best things you can do for your brain.

If you've ever been curious about tarot but assumed it wasn't for you, this conversation might just change your mind — or at the very least, give you something interesting to think about.

Mel Loy is a storyteller, community enthusiast, and host of this insightful exploration into the power of individual passions. She’s dedicated to highlighting stories that connect people and inspire action.

You can connect with Mel on LinkedIn and Instagram.

Do you have a weird or wonderful hobby, or do you know someone who does? Then get in touch! Email hello@cuttlefish.group.

Transcript

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Welcome to Wait, You Do What? The show where we unearth some of the weird and wonderful hobbies of the people in our communities. I'm your host, Mel Lloyd. I'm recording this on the lands of the Evera and Terrible People here in the Engine Brisbane. And I love sharing stories. So sit back, relax, enjoy, and laugh, and maybe be a bit inspired by some of the hobbies our guests share with us on this show. Let's get into it. Jade, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. This is fun. It's so fun, I'm excited. Before we get into your weird and wonderful hobby, can you tell us a bit about you? Yes, so my name is Jade Miller. Uh I um from New Zealand originally. I grew up a very curious child in rural New Zealand, sharing sheep and milking cows and kicking around in paddocks at a very small school. Um I think I was probably a bit um overcurious and just, you know, really delved into books a lot and um kind of like left the rural area as quickly as I could to get to uni when I was 17, where I studied communications so and media. Um yeah, I but I do really value that growing up on the farm. Um it's there's something very grounding and earthy and brings a brings a um a certain personal attribute, I think, when you've lived on the land and worked with the land. So I do really value having that time as a child. Um yeah, so that was my upbringing, I guess. And now I live in Brisbane and have done for some time. Uh I have a business where I help uh really smart people with their non um non-fiction books. So I do book editing, developmental editing, I also illustrate some people's books, um, and just bring structure, narrative strategy to what people are writing about, which is a really fun uh privileged project work that I get to do, you know, helping people with their creative work and their baby, their books are a baby. So, you know, we're looking after a baby. And as you would know, because you've already also written your own book. I have. I now have a copy. So I wrote Making Lemonade uh a couple of years ago. I published that. Um and that book is about um understanding ourselves, understanding each other, and understanding the context of the world that we live in just to improve our state of being. Um I yeah, I had a really good response with it. I um really enjoyed writing it. It's such a massive project to do a book. And I'm keen to do another one. So watch this face. Book coaching is a huge thing, and I like you're doing this all around, you know, raising teenagers too, which is incredible. Uh but it is one of those things I think people don't realize it's oh not people, that's very general, but a lot of people probably wouldn't realise that book coaching actually exists out there as a role, you know. And I get questions a lot like, how do you want to how did you start writing your book and that sort of thing? Uh and I'm sure you do too, because I think everybody, well not everybody, people have a book in them, people have a story, and maybe you've been toying with the idea for a while of writing a book, but you're not sure where to start, and that's where someone like you can really come in, right? Yes, absolutely. I think you know, someone said to me the other night, oh uh um everything that I have to say is already being said, and I was very quick to say, no, not true. You have your own perspective and your own story and your own spin on things that the world could use. Like the world needs different perspectives and different ideas, and um, I really enjoy helping people bring their personal element to their work, and um yeah, it's just a like I mean, it's grueling and it's hard work, but it's just such a satisfying, fulfilling process to go through with someone. I've seen tears, I've seen laughs, I've seen all the things helping people with their book process, and yeah, I like to think that I bring an empathetic sort of approach and very strategic and communicate. I'm a 20 years in comms, so uh a lot of value in that experience of how to structure things and you know, writing and narrative and all of that kind of thing. So yeah, it's work I really enjoy. Yeah, and I have no doubt you are excellent at it. So you're communicator extraordinaire, book coach, visual artist as well, and you're raising children, but you've also got another hobby. Tell us all about it. Yeah, so um, I guess kind of recently in the last few months, I started doing tarot readings and card readings. Um it's sort of a a part of a journey where I'm trying to be more open, learn some new things. Um there's so much to it um to learn, and I'm not super fluent in it, but I have been doing some readings for other people, and I really, really love that. Like that's really exciting because you just don't know what's gonna come up, and quite often things happen in a synchronistic way, and things um yeah, like I guess it's sort of like a tool for self-reflection, but it also has a spiritual element. There's two ways you can look at it, right? Like you could just it's just a pack of cards and it's just a tool for um yeah, reflecting on a situation, reflecting on yourself, or you can just tune in a little bit and have a little faith sort of element and wonder if there is some sort of force or some sort of spiritual thing that is going on. Um yeah, so I think it's maybe been about three months since I but although I did actually start it when I was in uni. So I did use to do um terror readings and things back in uni. I was on a real spiritual journey. I also used to go to a Tuesday morning psychics class. Love it with uh a collection of older women, amazing older women, and just practice tuning in to the spirit realm, I guess. But um, whether you believe that, or you don't believe that it there's I mean, there was something about sitting mindfully in a room with some older, experienced, wise women that you know, that in itself is a cool experience. Whether, you know, when you explain it to people, um there's there's some skepticism for sure. And I do think uh yeah, there's a couple of things you said there about putting different points of view out into the world and thinking differently. And I think we need that right now so much more than ever, where we see so much polarization, you know, you're either left or you're right, you're either red or you're blue, you're black or you're white. Like there's no um, there's not so much nuance anymore or people being as open to different ways of thinking either. So I think, and look, social media doesn't help that. We know that the algorithms are attuned into the confirmation bias, but yeah, having that different thought process is cool. And it's when I was talking to somebody about this the other day about, you know, the John Edwards of the world or the Teresa, whatever her name is, the the psychic who's on TV all the time. She's got big blonde hair. And you know, whether or not you believe in that, if it brings comfort to somebody, so be it. Like, you know, it's it's harmless, it's fine. So, and why did you first get interested in tarot reading? How did this where was the thing that went tarot? That's interesting. Oh, go look at that. I think uh I've picked it up more recently because I am working on myself being more open and uh I guess a little bit more spiritual. I've had um a lot of different spiritual experiences in my life, and um you know, from uni I went into um some travel and I went and stayed in a Buddhist temple, and then when I was done there, I sort of ended up in Brisbane, and then incidentally ended up in a what I would call a cultish scenario, uh, which is a conversation for another podcast. So I've had these sort of but since then and I since I ended that, I have sort of closed off spiritual ideas, I think. And uh I don't know, I just felt like I wanted to open things up again for myself. And I thought that maybe getting grabbing some cards and tapping into that faith part of your brain might be a healthy thing to do, you know. There's research around how having faith or religion of some kind and believing in something bigger than yourself actually activates parts of your brain that don't get activated in other ways. So I don't know. It's good for my brain. Yeah, it's great. And you mentioned this before, like it can be a self-reflection tool, you said, or more of a spiritual tool. Because I think the general reputation of tarot is fortune telling type of yes reputation, but that's not what it really is, is it? In that the way you see it. No, so actually, like a little brief history of tarot. Um, it actually started as a card game in Italy for the aristocrats and noble families. Uh wasn't even a tool for divine seeing, or um, you know, as we sort of think about it now, it's it wasn't really created in that way. Um over that was in the 1400s it started, and then over you know, in the next few hundred years it spread across Europe, and uh apparently there was a pr um a Protestant pastor who decided or somehow spread the rumour that tarot came from Egypt, ancient Egypt, and it was Egyptian. Anyway, that that was a catalyst for then um occultists and uh like yeah, people of mysticism or spiritual, alternative spiritual to the church, I guess, uh started applying meanings to these cards and using these cards as a way to share information from you know, whether it's you know through spirit or whatever. I guess um then what happened was Carl Jung and his work, he brought in ideas about archetype and things, and people started using it more as a psychological self-reflection tool. So now we have sort of like a mixed meanings, and I think you I think it means whatever you whatever meaning you give it. So for me, it's a little bit of both those things. It's I don't take it super seriously. Um I'm not gonna put my headscarf on and get the crystal ball out. The Victor earrings. Yeah. Um it's it is a self-reflection tool, but it also amazes me what uncanny sort of things come up when you're thinking about them and asking questions about it. Yeah. That's cool. So what do you enjoy about it? I I like that, those the synchronicity moments when you ask a question and it comes out with an answer directly related to your question. Or um doing it for other people and seeing them be blown away by how did this how does this how do these cards know the answer to what I'm doing? Or how does it know about me? You know, I've done a couple, I've done heaps of readings recently, but the couple that I have done have been very uncanny. But it's cool, just call uncanny. Okay. Um, and I just really enjoy that aspect of it, I think. That's cool. And how so how do you actually go about learning how to read tarot? That's a really good question. Um I have a book, so I have like a I have my cards, but I also have a like a study, a book that you can study, and that has all the meanings of the cards. So when you call the cards, you just go to which one and get it and it gives you meanings. So some people might um learn all learn, try and memorize and learn all the meanings of the cards. Um I haven't really done that and I'm not doing it. My the way that I I guess approaching it is very intuitive and just a bit of fun and guidance for myself and for whoever wants to join me at the table. And that's all and and I is there a bit of a community of tarot readers or people who do that sort of thing. Yeah. Um since I started uh so I started by searching just for some other tarot some tarot cards and um different types of oracle cards on Facebook Marketplace. And so since I'd done that, my Instagram is filled with Sarah readings and astrology, and at first when it was starting to sprinkle through, I was like, oh, this is interesting. Because you know, people are like, this video is for you. If this is make sure you like it and save it to claim this message, and it's quite intense. It sounds like those old chain emails that when hotmail first became a thing, it is a little bit like that, and everybody's got something different to say, uh, and it's a I've as it's gradually increased in my social media, I'm just a bit like, well, this is a bit much. Um but yeah, there's a lot of people out there obviously doing tarot readings for people, especially online, and um, you know, I it's interesting whether you think about whether you charge money or don't charge money. Like the the whole exchange of money for this kind of thing is I find quite interesting. And um, yeah, some people charge for readings, which I guess, you know, it's a it's a business. People it's your time. Yeah, it's your time and your energy. Like I know when I do a reading to someone, I feel really drained afterwards because uh I put a lot of emotion into it, I guess, and care about what's happening and it and searching for meaning and supporting somebody in a way that hopefully encourages their life. Like there's there's a there is something in in that. I'd whether I'm gonna start charging, taking gold coins at the tent door or not, I don't know, at the school fate. Yeah. Let's talk a bit more about the surprising history of tarot cards. As Jade mentioned, the cards were never about divination or fortune telling. They got their start in northern Italy in the early 15th century, at the height of the Renaissance, when card games were fashionable among aristocrats. Wealthy family took commission ornate decks known as Carta da Triumfi, or Cards of Triumph, to play a game called Taroggio, which appears to be a little bit like bridge. And that's how Tarot remained for the first 300 years or so of its existence. A deck of cards for a game. But in the late 18th century, French society became fascinated by anything to do with ancient Egypt, courtesy of Napoleon's campaign. It was at this time that a Protestant pastor falsely claimed Tarot had originated from ancient Egypt. And, though it was a lie, it was a good enough myth to inspire people interested in the occult and mystics to give spiritual meaning to the cards, transforming them into a divination tool. The modern decks of these cards that we see today are all based on the Ryder Waite deck. It's named after Arthur Edward Waite, who was a member of a group called the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, and Pamela Coleman Smith, an artist who Waite commissioned to create the deck. She completed all 78 card designs in just six months. Pamela Smith herself, who was also known as Pixie, was an incredibly talented British artist, illustrator, writer, and publisher. Apart from the tarot cards, she also illustrated over 20 books, wrote two collections of Jamaican folklore after living in New Jamaica for some of her life, edited two magazines, and founded a small printing press that focused on women writers. And she was a suffragette. She certainly hasn't received the credit she deserves. Like Jade said, however, parrot cards aren't just being used for fortune-telling and divination these days. They're also being used as tools for self-reflection, with people using the cards as a prompt or inspiration for a thought or catalyst for unearthing core beliefs. Some therapists use the cards to facilitate discussions about clients' concerns, helping them to uncover underlying issues and new perspectives. A 2009 study found that regular tarot users employed the cards as a way to gain insight into their current life situations, with readings offering clients a sense of order and control in their own minds. There's also an increasing trend among artists, writers, and entrepreneurs to use tarot for creative inspiration. Fast forward to today, and Tarot is enormous and it is growing fast in popularity. The global tarot cards market was valued at approximately 485 to 600 million US dollars in 2024, and is anticipated to reach $892 million by 2032. The popularity of Tarot is being spurred on by increased interest in spirituality and mindfulness, as well as social media allowing tarot readers to offer their services direct to people's devices via TikTok and Instagram. Even the cards have gone digital, with more than 150 Tarot mobile apps offering AI-based card interpretations. I don't know about you, but I personally prefer the real thing. So let's get back to Jade. Well, you are going to do a reading for me today, isn't that right? Just a quick look. Yes. And I am really interested in this for a couple of reasons. One, how you actually do a tarot reading online as opposed to in person. And also, like I full disclosure, I'm not a very spiritual person. So, but I am very open-minded. So I'm interested to see how this all goes. There's different layouts for different purposes, and each layout card has a meaning. So um challenge, opportunity, and action. And we'll and I'll pull three cards for you. So I want you to think about a question or a situation, something that you like, and you don't have to share it. And uh I'll pull cards and just let you know what the cards mean, and then you can kind of just attribute it to your situation, take away from it what you want. Um, but I think the most important thing is openness because um, yeah, like I say, you don't have to believe in a spiritual realm, it just can be a tool for self-reflection and reflecting on a situation. Um, but if you I think if people were really closed, it just doesn't work. Like there is something in that, and I think that's probably applies to just about anything, really. Yeah, like that a two-way engagement isn't gonna work if one of the people are totally skeptical or not engaged. And I think even just one way when you you mentioned self reflection, that can be hard too because there are places you don't necessarily want to go with your own self reflection. And so people do close off to that too, I think. Yeah, that is really. True. I'm quite an open self-reflector person. So to me, it actually comes very naturally to engage with something like this. But yeah, you're right. There are people who will probably watch this and go, what the hell is this woman talking about? And that's why we love you. Okay, let's do this. Okay, let's do this. So just out of the I guess um idea of energy, uh you have given me a card before, a greeting card at my book launch and written in it. So I actually now this is like superstitious, believe it or not, believe whatever. Anyway, I put that card with the deck of cards for you today, just as like a gesture, I guess, to just ask the cards, ask, you know, whatever's going on, just to um give us some insight on you specifically. So this beautiful deck of cards, they're pink and all have beautiful images on them. They're just really they're just really fun. Love it. Okay, so are you thinking about your question, your particular scenario? Yes. Have you got something in mind? Yeah, yes. So I'm gonna put three cards. The first card for challenge, which we've got the five of wands, and I'll explain these. I'll do the three cards and then explain there the knight of cups, and the action number three is the eight of pentacles. Okay, so wands, the suit of wands is about um the element is fire, and it's about passion, drive, creativity, ambition, um, energy, and inspiration and driving what you're building. So now actually, the other thing I should say is in the reverse position, which is slightly different to if it's up the right way, um, and it will give me a meaning about that. So the first one, the challenge, power struggles and differing opinions, frustration and annoyance. Uh, but in the challenge position, it brings an end to conflict, compromise, and things falling back into place after a challenging time. So, questions that you can ask yourself, where was I in conflict with others? But it seems to be saying that the conflict is coming or the challenge is coming to an end. Um thank goodness. Good. Sounds good. Oh, you don't want, yeah, you don't. That's good that that's one is upside down, right? Because it's about conflict and power struggle. So the reverse meaning is that it's ending, so that's good. Um the book does say interestingly, that a ritual to associate with this card is to organize your sock, cutlery, or desk drawer. God, you don't want to see any of that. So the challenge, the challenge um card that I've identified as number one card is that there's an end to the challenge and an end to the concept.

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Okay.

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So number so number two is opportunity, and that is the knight of cups. So the cups and I should show you these because they're really for our listeners who can't see, they are beautiful cards. This one's got uh a knight on a horse, and it's the knight, not the horse, is holding a cup, a gold cup. Yeah, and the keywords for this one are heart-led, loving, romantic, and kind. Um, cups are about emotions, relationships, intuition, and your inner world, what's happening below the surface. So the knight of cups, heart-led, loving, romantic, kind, open, compassionate, intuitive, dreamy and calm, emotionally available. So the meanings that this card has is follow your heart, listen to your inner guidance and wisdom, and go where you're guided. Be open to new love in romance, friendships, and deeper self-love, and trust that things are moving forward. So you've had the end of a challenge, and this new opportunity is about new love, and that could be in the form of friendships or um self-love or romance love. Um it's a positive card to see in matters of that, and the affirmation to go with it is I am open to receiving love in all forms. That's lovely, it's a nice sentiment. Yeah, I think that's nice, it's encouraging. There's gonna be love in your life. There's an end to some conflict, and there's gonna be love in your life. Well, I have been thinking about getting another cat, so maybe this is your sign. Maybe there's a sign. Get a second cat. Okay, and the action around um your situation is this one, which is the eight of pentacles. Now, pot pentacles is about the world around us. So physical world, uh, money, um your body, practical work, career, health, daily life. So the eight of pentacles represents hard work, dedication, skill, talent, and focus, satisfaction, creativity, a good work, ethic, art and craft, studious job satisfaction, hard work paying off and effort and diligence. I mean, that sounds like to me. I do I do know you a little bit, and that does sound very akin to you. That is very true. Um so the meanings behind this is you have many skills and talents, and your goals are within reach. Uh stay focused on the task, at hand in what you're trying to achieve, finish what you've started. That's a good thing for advertising. We all know that's not gonna happen. Thanks, Universe. Um and doing a good job. You can be satisfied and proud. So that's the affirmations with this are your hard work is paying off, and you and this one's for you. I am a master of my craft. That's for you. That's nice. So I think that um, yeah, so we've got overall the ending of a challenge and conflict, moving into more love and connection, I guess, in your life and heart-led things. And the action for you is just, I guess, continue just being how you are, which is hardworking, talented, creative, and focusing on things and sometimes finishing stuff. Sometimes. So that's my reason. Thank you. That was fun. So what I'm hearing is stop chasing shiny things. Yeah. Maybe. So you can you can take from that whatever you, you know, whatever sort of speaks to you about that. Uh, you teach whatever you like. And I can absolutely just from that see how it can be just that helpful tool for self-reflection, as you say. Like, oh yeah, like that makes me think about what are the challenges that are going on and yeah, where are those, where am I at with some of those relationships and that sort of stuff. So I love it. It's great. Now, yeah, if we we also know you've got a couple of other hobbies. Let's just quickly touch on those. What else is going on? Yes. Yeah, so I am a painter and I make collage and I do that sort of intermittently. The art, you know, being an artist is so the best thing to do is to have a practice and try and do it all the time. Um, but that's impossible. So you have to go with your flow of things. But the act of creating is so good for you, it's so good for your brain. I keep seeing research about how art is equivalent to a workout for Alzheimer's, you know, and like vision, you know, visualizing and um creating in a different way just helps your problem-solving skills. Like, there's just so many things about doing art, making art and um creative stuff with your hands that uh that do things in your subconscious and do things in your brain that we don't normally do when we're just sitting in front of a computer, like tap-tap-tabbing away at regular work stuff. It supports all of that and it helps all of that. I think it's an integral part of being a human. Um, so I do that as part of my practice, I guess. Part of my life. It's very important to me. Um, my favorite thing is that like collages, so I sort of make like handmade memes. Kind of that's like how to describe it, actually, your collage. Yeah. Yeah, so it's all uh I sure I don't have any with me, but um I generally just have like one sort of message, and it's usually something a bit cheeky or something that makes you think a bit differently. Um about there's there's quite a lot of social commentary and um just different ideas about how we see the world. So uh that's how I really enjoy doing that. That's yeah, about the way that I I guess get people thinking. That's part of my theme today, I think, is uh yeah, getting people thinking differently. Well, I am lucky enough to have a Jade Miller original painting in my house and it has pride of praise place in uh foyer, so it's one of the first things people see when they walk in and gets so many amazing comments because it is beautiful. Like you're about you are a real talent. Oh, thank you. And one last question: what skills have you learned from these hobbies, whether it's tarot, collage, painting, that you can apply to other areas of your life? Yeah, so I think with um tarot particularly, there's a skill in speaking confidently, speaking truthfully, being um there's a skill in trusting yourself that um you know, because when you start doing this sort of stuff, you kind of think, oh I don't know if I have the right thing to say, but actually it's not really it's just trusting the process, trusting that things will happen as they're supposed to happen, trusting that the right cards will come up, and I'm not gonna say something stupid. It's not really it doesn't really matter, it's not that serious, you know. So I guess then another skill, but not taking things so seriously, like um having a bit of fun with stuff and being open and yeah, connected with people, it's a really great way to connect with people. And I really I wrote the other day just about how small talks hard for me, and I really like going deeper. So if you see me in the next networking event with my tarot cards out, because I've been done with the small talk and I can just be pulling cards for people, and it just provides uh, you know, maybe that's a really good way to connect with you, just provide a little um talking point. You know, whether people believe in it or not, it doesn't it doesn't really matter to me whether they do or they don't. It's not I'm not pending my whole life on this as a new, you know, a new vocation. It's just something fun that I'm really enjoying. I love it. And you should absolutely bring them to the next networking event. I love stuff like that. Or Dade, if people want to connect with you, whether it's talk about book coaching, tarot, your art, what's the best way for them to do that? Yeah, so I'm on LinkedIn under Jade Miller Consulting. And I'm also on Instagram as lemonade underscore with underscore Jade. Yeah, happy to chat with anyone about any of those things or other things too. So we'll pop some links in the show notes as well. But okay, thank you so much for sharing your weird and wonderful hobby with us today. Thanks, Mel.